What Does the Bible Say About Same-Sex Relationships?
I have been having online "discussions" with my friend David (aka. Bravus) about same-sex relationships and what the Bible says about it. I am at a bit of a disadvantage as I don't consider myself a Christian so am not as schooled in Bible studies but the more I look into it the more confused I get. I've learned there are around 34,000 different Christian groups in the world. Is it any wonder they don't all agree? I have been reading online about what the Bible says about same-sex relationships and some say there is nothing in the Bible that denounces same-sex relationships and there are some who point to passages that do denounce same-sex relationships. What I have discovered is that there are three places in the Bible that deal directly with the issue: Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, and Gen 38:1-11. However I have also read that the conversion from the original scriptures are all over the map when it comes to what is written in our Bibles today. There are so many different Bibles, each with a slightly different translation, that it is really hard to say which one is the correct one. How does one go about finding out which one is the correct one?
So I ask you, where in the Bible does it say that same-sex relationships are not allowed? Subsequently. where in the Bible does is say that same-sex relationships are allowed? I have references to both arguments already so lets make this a discussion as I would really like to know.
If you would like to see what Bravus and myself have been discussing here is the link to that online conversation: Family of Fear
10 comments:
okay ...Ill bite.
I think that it is easy to get side tracked in trying to figure out what church believes this and what church dosn't. The bible is very clear with its stand on same sex relationships. In fact it is one of those issues that are NOT in the "grey area". It is clear and concise.
God does not approve of this kind of relationship. Romans 1 is the clearest and strongest word on this. "God gave them over to shameful lusts.Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and recieved in themselves the due penalty for their perversion"
The bible lists homosexual behaviour along with such things as adultery, fornication, prostitution, thieves and swindling. God does not set it as a "special" sin, greater than all others.
In fact the immoral heterosexual is neither better or worse than the practicing homosexual.Both come under divine judgement.
The bible is clear that people that live in this way "will not inherit the kingdom of God"
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
They are also listed with liars, drunkards, kidnappers 1 Tim 1:10-11
You see the point? Yeah God thinks homosexual lifestyle is a sin - But it is a sin in with many sins. Its not a stand out of the crowd thing .It falls short of what God wanted for us and he pleads to have a relationship with us so we can "put on our new selves" and stop being controlled by sexual things and desires. These things take up alot of head space and lower our opinions and values of each other. Wheather its bi-sexual, homosexual, heterosexual, or just surfing the wrong sites on the net - it all results to sexual immorality to God. He wants us to turn away from sexual sin and he wants to forgive us and live a life free of the guilt, pain, wanting ,jealousy, and the anger and sometimes embarrassment.The bible says this can only happen through Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:24-27
1 Tim 1:10-11
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Hebrews 13:4 (gotta read this one)
1John 1:9
ken
You were doing good with the Romans 1:
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Timothy 1:10-11 doesn't say anything about homosexuality but atlks about other sins:
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1 Corithians 6:9-10 does talk about some bad things but again doesn't mention homosexualtiy:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Hebrews 13:4 talks about marriage but not homosexuality:
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
1 John 1:9...I'm not sure where you were going with this:
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So in conclusion from what I just read the only place you told me about that mentions what seems to indicate homosexuality is Romans 1:24-30
okay .... so according to your interpritation of the other scriptures (obviously all of them not NIV) who cares? Romans 1 still stands and its clear and undisputted. Are you just going to disregaurd it? its pretty clear - even your interpritations of that scripture would come to the same conclusion. God does not accept or approve homosexuality.
anonymous...all the quoted scriptures were from KJV. And yes I do agree that homosexuality is a sin from reading Romans. What I am trying to understand is both the for and against arguments. I can easily see the "against" side now that I've done a bit of research, but I have heard arguments for the "for" side too (see the link to Bravus in the original post) and I am hoping to see what the "for side has to say. Mostly I hear about rights etc., but I don't see where in the Bible it say homosexuality is not a sin.
hey Lorne
I searched some sites and those sites seemed to be saying that its all in the "interpritation" of the scriptures. It also glasses over the hard scriptures like romans 1 with something like - "this is a different time in the world". But everyone knows that there was rampant bisexuality all throughout history.
I think the against is a easy one...
you want a harder one??? try this.
Where does it say in the bible that we have to get married in the traditional way. Cant two christians who love each other and are devoted to each other be able to live together without getting "Married"?
post that one.. it should be interesting.
Good one Ken!! I might just do that soon. That should be interesting. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head though is didn't Jesus attend weddings and if so where they through the church? Time to do some research.
Just a really quick one on the Romans 1 text. I'm not actually advocating this perspective myself - I'm still trying to understand - but some have said that those verses refer to those whose natural inclination is straight, but who get into gay sex for a kinky thrill. That certainly fits in with what the texts say. It could be argued that they are therefore not directly relevant to those whose natural (and there's a whole other nature/nurture/consequences of sin argument there to be discussed) is toward their own sex. In fact, it could be argued that for them to be forced into a heterosexual marriage would be forcing them to turn away from their natural affections.
I think what Ken said makes a lot of sense, though: all of us have sins, and not just sexual ones, and need to learn and grow. We tend to obsess with sex - ours and other people's - at the expense of what Jesus called 'the weightier matters' of justice and mercy.
Lorne,
If you say you are doing a study of the Bible regarding homosexual relations, you should include the Old Testament, it is part of the Bible and the New Testament cannot properly be understood with out it. Get yourself a good concordance and look up homosexuality. Also look at the original languages and meanings for the words Adultery and Fornication. Remember that the Bible was not written in English and translation is only that, a translation. Especially in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament two, the Hebrew language is full of symbolic phrase and words often have more than one meaning. Yes, I know that the New Testament was not written in Hebrew, but in Greek which makes the translation even more difficult to understand, because under the Greek words are a Hebrew mind-set and Hebrew expressions.
I find this kind of study very, very interesting. Good luck and enjoy!
You raise a number of good questions regarding Christianity, religion, translations, and more. But, these cannot be simplly answered.
On homosexuality, let me suggest that you purchase HOMOSEXUALITY IN HISTORY AND SCRIPTURE, by Ron M. Springett. I think that it will give you some very good foundational material for considering the subject, and it may suprise you.
You may purchase a used copy on amazon.com.
Thanks for the info Gregory. The history part of the discussion I don't really think is relevant as I am sure there has been homosexuality throughout history. It is the scriptures that I am most concerned with.
Post a Comment